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Here is my final word

  • Our Athletic Director's staff assured Black Mountain that our new Field Turf is going to be using beige (actually tan) infill to reduce temps. I would ask everyone on this board to watch this small 24 minute video developed by the Sports Research Center at Penn State, which was developed in partnership with and lauded by Field Turf and its parent company, Tarkett. As you will see, there is no statistical difference between the temps using tan vis a vis black infill:

    http://cropsoil.psu.edu/ssrc/sportsturf-scoop/temperature

    It's actually an interesting video that was produced in 2011 and appears to be the final research word on temperatures and turf. Finding is that as of now, natural turf or grass has a process for cooling that is inherent in mother nature that has not been replicated as of yet.

    I find it particularly interesting that our new coach got Field Turf installed at WVU in 2007, and then had to have the Field Turf that had been installed at Michigan Stadium in 2003 replaced with a new surface for the 2010 season. For me, the info from PSU proves what I predicted in an earlier post when I explained why I was not emailing or talking to Byrne, because he was just going to listen or read and stroke whoever complained. This, to me, officially fails the smell test. At some point, some journalist somewhere is going to start doing public records requests on Field Turf, CEO John Gillman and their client schools and it's going to be ugly.

    This post was edited by rickyk on 4/27/2012 at 4:29 PM

    rickyk

  • I also don't understand the "need" to practice in the stadium so much.

    If they want their freakin FT so much give it to 'em -- in a full size practice field. They'll have room to the north of the new end zone project for such a field.

    We aren't going to use the baseball stadium anymore, so put an identical natural surface, north to south alignment there so we have two practice fields.

    And then they bring up the issue of money to upkeep. Fill the house and there will be plenty of money to take care of all three fields.

    BlkMtn

  • I think that every justification now is simply damage control for a decision that was probably made during the hiring process of RR.

    rickyk

  • north field is for intramurals. turf on stadium allows concerts=more revenue. land is scarce. investigate report away. i doubt they really care what goes on in this forum.

    spikesss

  • If you are hiring a FB coach and he says he wants field turf, what is the problem with giving it to him? That's Byrne's job. I fail to see why the decision making process need involve anymore than 1 person or why that is a concern to you, Rickyk. Committees and research and checks and balances apply to business organizations who hire weak and ineffective people to begin with. If you hire a coach you have implicit confidence in and he knows way more about playing surfaces and says he wants turf... he gets turf.

    Great restaurants hiring a new chef - the chef gets any piece of kitchen equipment he wants.
    Country Clubs hire golf pros, and the golf pro wants a different putting green re-worked, then the putting green gets changed. This happened at La Paloma when Don Pooley came on board.
    If Sean Miller said he wanted those playground BB nets made out of chains, I bet he'd get them.

    I prefer grass. Agree 100% with you on that. But this is Byrne's decision. We have to count on him and RR and whoever to do the due diligence and make the right decision. This is not a public committee, they are not having to account for public money being spent, because it's not public money. And if they (whoever) collectively are all making sucha horrible decision, then we have the wrong people in place.

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • Did you watch the video? If you did then I think you would know that he has NOT done due diligence on this issue. The issue of whether or not this is public money was settled a long time ago; just ask Tony Mason. Just because they are not tax funds does not equate to "not public money." Besides, it doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things whether it's public money in the legal sense, which it is; what matters is that some of it is my money and B.M.'s and others among the public on this board, and if they go ahead with this I will not give them another dime.

    Unless you are afraid of what you'll find, why don't you watch the video?

    rickyk

  • your money will be replaced by someone else, and you will be watching the game on tv or in the cheap seats. i agree with wineknow. this is not a decision by committee. if it does not work they can always put grass back in. another thought: practicing in the same venue you play the games makes good sense-just knowing the "nuances" of the field, crown etc.

    spikesss

  • I'm sure it will be replaced and I'm sure if I watch it'll be on t.v. Did you watch the video? Another, I don't want to be inconvenienced by having to think or face facts person? All the decisions John Junker made at the Fiesta Bowl were not decisions for a committee either. Ultimately, without accountability there is embarrassment and that is just what this will end up being.

    rickyk

  • wineknow said...

    If you are hiring a FB coach and he says he wants field turf, what is the problem with giving it to him? That's Byrne's job. I fail to see why the decision making process need involve anymore than 1 person or why that is a concern to you, Rickyk. Committees and research and checks and balances apply to business organizations who hire weak and ineffective people to begin with. If you hire a coach you have implicit confidence in and he knows way more about playing surfaces and says he wants turf... he gets turf.

    Great restaurants hiring a new chef - the chef gets any piece of kitchen equipment he wants. Country Clubs hire golf pros, and the golf pro wants a different putting green re-worked, then the putting green gets changed. This happened at La Paloma when Don Pooley came on board. If Sean Miller said he wanted those playground BB nets made out of chains, I bet he'd get them.

    I prefer grass. Agree 100% with you on that. But this is Byrne's decision. We have to count on him and RR and whoever to do the due diligence and make the right decision. This is not a public committee, they are not having to account for public money being spent, because it's not public money. And if they (whoever) collectively are all making sucha horrible decision, then we have the wrong people in place.

    I actually agree in principle on this.

    But suppositions have been made that may or may not be accurate:

    * The inference has been made that this is a concession to the hire of RR. It may have been, but we actually have no proof that that is true. What we do have is the statement, made very clearly (I can send you the email if you PM me with your personal email) that installation of FT was part of the construction plan made when Stoops was here.

    And that makes sense to me. The construction plan of the NE project has been changed since the hire of RR, because there are certain changes within the structure that the new coaching staff has asked for and has gotten. Nothing too drastic, just some changes in alignment as to how the new staff wants things placed.

    But, according the the Athletic Dept., the installation of the FT was part and parcel of the project. When I wrote that we had one of the best natural surfaces in the country, the answer was "yes, and it has been very costly to keep it that way."

    Although no one has said this, one of the other obvious problems we may have with our natural turf is that the best growing time for bermuda -- I'm sure what we have now is some kind of tiff variety, is in transition to dormancy during the fall. All the golf courses overseed with rye in September, to insure a nice, green playing surface during the fall/winter golf seasons.

    However, with management, this is a problem that is easily overcome, in my opinion. At Tucson Country Club, for years, they didn't over seed because the playing surface stayed green through most of the fall, until the first freeze, which was usually earlier than any other part of town since it is in between two major washes.

    So, in the absence of clear evidence, I would be careful to place blame on RR as the nail in the coffin in our grass. It was confirmed to me that he is in favor of the change, but it was also emphasized that a change has been a part of decision making regardless of the coaching staff.

    I know they're all out to get us, but on this issue, I would put away the paranoia.

    BlkMtn

  • You can call it paranoia or anything else you want. The pdc plans dated 21 April 2011, depict BDF being done over in artificial turf, discuss everything about everything regarding improvements to the stadium etc., but not one word about Field Turf for Arizona Stadium. The first time I ever saw any public discussion about it was when RR floated it out there about a month after he was hired. If it was already in the works he wouldn't have to throw it out there that he might, if he had his way, hope to get Field Turf.

    You can believe what you want, I believe what is now happening is called damage control.

    http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/Pac10/Arizona/index.htm

    This post was edited by rickyk on 4/29/2012 at 1:00 AM

    rickyk

  • who really killed jfk???huh

    spikesss

  • You have a good point and your supposition is as good as any at his.point, so I'm not disagreeing with you. I was just trying to be objective and frame what I've been told.

    Apparently, the payback in cost reduction in upkeep is five years.

    BlkMtn

  • The eastern side of my house still has no landscaping. I am not a home improvement type.....so I found a guy who bids out landscaping jobs....I told him I wanted grass....he told me I should do synthetic, just like all the sports venues are doing. I asked if he knew RickyK. He asked me who RickyK is? I told him RickyK was the guy who convinced me to plant grass at my house!

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • The Arizona AD is subsidized to the tune of 6.7 million dollars a year in tax dollars so to say that it is not public money simply is not true. That amount is down from where it was before but is still significant. Thee aBOR makes them account for what they spend and what it is used for.

    Jim

    jjones163

  • wineknow said...

    The eastern side of my house still has no landscaping. I am not a home improvement type.....so I found a guy who bids out landscaping jobs....I told him I wanted grass....he told me I should do synthetic, just like all the sports venues are doing. I asked if he knew RickyK. He asked me who RickyK is? I told him RickyK was the guy who convinced me to plant grass at my house!

    I am going to ask again, did you watch the video? I guess if you watched it you might have to confront some inconvenient truths, so to speak. I guess it's easier to stand on the sidelines and make snide comments than to take a look at the most recent data. All I asked for was 24 minutes of your time, I guess that was asking too much.

    rickyk

  • I watched the video and it was well worth my time. Even at 159 degrees it is still too hot. Tempe and Tucson are a lot hotter than Provo and Central PA. This is a very bad idea and I blame RR.

    Jim

    jjones163

  • Knowing WK, I really don't think he was being obtuse or sarcastic to you, just being funny.

    That said, I think your video and the points you make are excellent.

    We are coming into that time of year that is horridly hot, so maybe RR will get the point -- unless he summers in Michigan!

    Come to think of it, that would be a great idea. They have some great golf up there, don't they?

    BlkMtn

  • Indeed!!! Why do you think I'm planting grass??!!!

    Yes I watched it - believe I even thanked you for it.

    Not meant to be snide

    This post was edited by wineknow on 5/4/2012 at 1:18 AM

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • At the Frank Kush Landfill for my wife's graduation. Interesting, the field is covered in artificial turf for the ceremony!!!

    I hate this place so much....

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • At the Frank Kush Landfill for my wife's graduation. Interesting, the field is covered in artificial turf for the ceremony!!!

    I hate this place so much....

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • A.G. has checked in with RR's PAC-12 media conference, and down at the bottom is a little blip about the tentative plan on Field Turf for the 2013 season. I agree with Jim; it is a bad idea and I too blame Rich Rodriguez. I have to remind myself of West Virginia's state history so I'm not shocked at things like this; after all, West Virginia is tied with Louisiana in having the most Governors convicted and incarcerated than any other states.

    http://tucsoncitizen.com/wildcatreport/2012/05/08/richrod-matt-scott-can-be-the-leader-we-need/

    rickyk