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Bottom Line On Miller

  • first, let me state that Miller is still the man. Do I have any criticism of him....darn right. Did I have any for Lute Damn right. Lute frustrated me to hell with his lack of enthusiasm....weather from his lack on preparedness for a game (s) (M of Ohio, SC, Upper-lower Tenn, asu oh wait that was Miller). Sure Lute never cursed and that is a proud thing in life (couldnt possibly happen with me and probably 99.9 % of our chat folks here) but he frustrated me to no end...he said it was up to the individual and the assistants to get them pumped-up. Sorry Lute but it is a lot up to you.
    What I am saying is...Miller has his faults ( inflexible) but as Gary pointed out not all of us are able to really grasp the game like some of these coaches can and never will. We can only scrape the surface of this game and follow the bouncing ball. We arent in the locker room hearing all the problems with all the different personalities and spoiled ness of the players, and their faults. I want like anyone and everyone of you...a winning season, or a season of improvement but for sure season or game where you see our players fight no matter what...not give up like the NIT.
    So Bottom line...This season was what IT IS AND WHAT IT WAS and I will support Miller and our team through thick and thin. I will feel for them with each loss, be it a player (Parrom, Mayes) or a loss of a player (Sidiki/momo)and feel the as all you do.
    Like my wife said..... Do you realize that you refer to the CATS as "WE" ?
    No and yes...cause they have been a part of me since THE FOX and Bear Down Gym.

    GO CATS
    Looking to the future with realistic expectations

    This post has been edited 2 times, most recently by Mrzipityduda on 3/19/2012 at 10:09 AM

    Mrzipityduda

  • I diverge when it gets into the support 'through thick and thin' thing, and with respect to Gary's note that often coaches have thankless positions, it sounds good to say I support coach X no matter what but then....

    We lost to RPI #251

    Almost 100 points lower than ANYONE Lute ever lost to. 251. Something is VERY wrong. And it just happened to be the ONE game that might have secured a tournament berth for us?!! C'MON. That CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be accepted or supported. There are serious questions to be asked and answered.

    He missed on some recruits.... maybe more than usual, but he is still rebuilding, we can all cut him some slack. I do hope Sidiki gets hit by a dump truck. Withey too for that matter, too - that asshole could be one of the top centers in the country this year.

    Knat = Bust, DW = #2, that's about a wash. One year may not be enough to determine if he can develop Johnson or not. After two I can't tell that Mayes is any better. Fogg and BLav got a lot better though.... we just have to wait and see....

    BUT he lost to #251 . Pretty much like losing to a high school team.

    My bottom line is simple. He's a good coach who still needs to prove he is Arizona good (meaning not miss the tournament, not lose to #251 and keep more than 25% of a recruiting class here).

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • Miller gets paid a lot of money, he should be able to take the criticism, his position comes with 2+ million worth of thanks every year.

    liver97

  • Agree generally with these points. Nice job opening it up, Zip.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but the talent sucked this year. Certainly a portion of that is Miller's responsibility, some is on Lute, some is on O'Neil for bringing the franchise down to some extent, and a large measure is on Livenvivalasvegas.

    No need to revisit his sins against the program, but his bungling of the replacement hire, all the way from initially instituting O'Neil as the permanent replacement, to the incredible mismanagement of the hire with no solid back up plan all took it's toll on recruiting. Better players make any coach better.

    So, in my view, Miller got a pass on recruiting -- until next year. It all begins next year. He has a razor thin margin of error, in my view, but he was a very decent coach last year and with some real players, apparently, coming in, it's a clean slate.

    When you have to go to war with players like Mayes and Blav, you're in trouble. Sure, Lav got better -- he got a ton more playing time. So, in a sense, that he was able to win 23 games with a marginal recruit like that contributing significant minutes shows coaching ability. In the glory days of Olson, Blav would never have seen any time, other than 34 seconds left in a blowout.

    BlkMtn

  • BlkMtn said...

    When you have to go to war with players like Mayes and Blav, you're in trouble. Sure, Lav got better -- he got a ton more playing time. So, in a sense, that he was able to win 23 games with a marginal recruit like that contributing significant minutes shows coaching ability. In the glory days of Olson, Blav would never have seen any time, other than 34 seconds left in a blowout.

    I really think you sell BLav short. I'm not saying he'd have replaced any starter, but Casey Schmidt saw a lot of PT, so did Matt Othick (as an underclassman) and Harvey Mason and Joe McLean and many Others we have all likely forgotten. It wasn't just Kerr and Reeves and Damon and Terry and Bibby and Simon and Gardner and Arenas for 40 minutes every time they stepped on the floor almost all of them played as freshmen in back up roles, but in critical situations, Lute always but reliable seniors like Craig McMillan rather than superstar freshmen.

    I can't recall who spelled Salim when Lute benched him for that December of his senior year, but I would have gladly traded up to BLAv's better defense as a senior. Salim in a shooting slump < BLav as a senior.

    "Arizona has no tradition" - Bill Walsh "We have a tradition of kicking Bill Walsh's ass" - Teddy Bruschi

    wineknow

  • Schmidt played a couple of seasons at Arizona, but realized that he wouldn't be much more than a role player, so I think the comparison is valid. He ave a little over 2 points a game. He really didn't get much playing time.

    Othick was a solid starter, so no comparison in my opinion. McMillian was a starter as well. Lav isn't in their league by any stretch.

    Lav blossomed as a senior and finally succeeded in shooting in games as he did in practice. But his defense was, well, ahem, not his strong suit.

    You have to have back ups, true. But Arizona has had stars in the guard position for years, and you cited some of them, there are plenty more. You make my argument by showing that a role player played a prominent piece of Arizona winning 23 games, probably more so than at any other time.

    BlkMtn

  • BlkMtn said...

    Schmidt played a couple of seasons at Arizona, but realized that he wouldn't be much more than a role player, so I think the comparison is valid. He ave a little over 2 points a game. He really didn't get much playing time.

    Othick was a solid starter, so no comparison in my opinion. McMillian was a starter as well. Lav isn't in their league by any stretch.

    Lav blossomed as a senior and finally succeeded in shooting in games as he did in practice. But his defense was, well, ahem, not his strong suit.

    You have to have back ups, true. But Arizona has had stars in the guard position for years, and you cited some of them, there are plenty more. You make my argument by showing that a role player played a prominent piece of Arizona winning 23 games, probably more so than at any other time.

    Also, Lav sucked in our losses. He was sub .333 from 3 point in all but the AZ State and final pac 12 tourney game.

    Bear Down Arizona! Wildcat Sports Report, CFO AZ's Certified Tax Coach at Wildcat Tax & Accountingwww.WildcatTax.com

    bpwildcat

  • Let me reiterate here. In a marriage I gave it all and didn't give up.....until the writting was on the wall. I'm going gungHO for Miller and will support him because I believe in him. BUT......with the players he has coming into the program and HILL coming back....he must improve significantly. I don't expect a Final 4 but I do expect this: 1st or 2nd in the PAC..make it to the PAC championship game. Get into the NCAA tourney. Win in the 64...32....16......and hopefully more. From what I hear...from what I have seen of these young men I feel we will have a great chemistriedific TEAM. Hell I'll just be happy to see a 7 footer that can play. But your right WINE...GUNGHO with a Little tempering..

    GO CATS

    Mrzipityduda

  • Some good posts on this topic, and I can't add much, because philosophically I may be a bit different from several on this board.

    I'm an alum, and played (footballl). So my perspective isn't so much that of a fan, and some of a fan's perspective is lost on me. I "get the itch" every August, and feel that I should be out there dying from the heat. I still look at things as a player. My mates would tell anyone that I was very intense as a player, but it's hard for me to relate that to being in the stands.

    When people are jumping up and down in the stands I'm pretty calm and thinking how we can beat these guys. I'm not wondering how stupid the coach is or why Joe dropped that pass, and I refuse to have a tantrum, or blow a vuvuzuela or rattle cowbells like that ass that sits behind me.

    So that gets to my position on "critiques" of players, programs, and coaches.

    I think sometimes fans take everything a coach says way too literally, and often become way too absolute in their opinions and end up hanging on every word.

    For example, Lute did say that it was up to players and assistants to get themselves up for a game; but anyone ever attending one of Lute's practices would surely recognize the motivation going on. The practices were pretty brutal from '83 through '90 with the early staff. The practices started softening when Roz started running more of the program....and there may be a clue in that..

    Historically, I recognized when Jim LaRue was in decline, when Bob Weber didn't have it, that Freddie kind of faked it, when Tony Mason was playing with fire, that Ben Lindsey was an idiot, had no clue that Larry Smith was about to bail, knew that Dick Tomey took the year off after going 12-1, knew Mac had become a jerk, and when Stoops lost the handle.

    But, I just never have pounded tables or experience hemorrhoids over any loss.

    Losing to aswho in anything is distasteful, but we did lose. I don't assign blame. I just thirst for the day next year when we get to pay them back.

    RBob1

    RBob1

  • RBob1 said...

    Some good posts on this topic, and I can't add much, because philosophically I may be a bit different from several on this board.

    I'm an alum, and played (footballl). So my perspective isn't so much that of a fan, and some of a fan's perspective is lost on me. I "get the itch" every August, and feel that I should be out there dying from the heat. I still look at things as a player. My mates would tell anyone that I was very intense as a player, but it's hard for me to relate that to being in the stands.

    When people are jumping up and down in the stands I'm pretty calm and thinking how we can beat these guys. I'm not wondering how stupid the coach is or why Joe dropped that pass, and I refuse to have a tantrum, or blow a vuvuzuela or rattle cowbells like that ass that sits behind me.

    So that gets to my position on "critiques" of players, programs, and coaches.

    I think sometimes fans take everything a coach says way too literally, and often become way too absolute in their opinions and end up hanging on every word.

    For example, Lute did say that it was up to players and assistants to get themselves up for a game; but anyone ever attending one of Lute's practices would surely recognize the motivation going on. The practices were pretty brutal from '83 through '90 with the early staff. The practices started softening when Roz started running more of the program....and there may be a clue in that..

    Historically, I recognized when Jim LaRue was in decline, when Bob Weber didn't have it, that Freddie kind of faked it, when Tony Mason was playing with fire, that Ben Lindsey was an idiot, had no clue that Larry Smith was about to bail, knew that Dick Tomey took the year off after going 12-1, knew Mac had become a jerk, and when Stoops lost the handle.

    But, I just never have pounded tables or experience hemorrhoids over any loss.

    Losing to aswho in anything is distasteful, but we did lose. I don't assign blame. I just thirst for the day next year when we get to pay them back.

    well said. players perspectives are always nice to hear.

    uofasteve

  • RBob1 my only dispute with your post is that Mac was already a jerk when he got here. Sad about gentleman Jim. I think his decline had to do with losing a couple of his assistants; as I recall Jake Rowden was a really good one that went somewhere else.

    rickyk

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