WSR Full Court Report

Wine, welcome back. Your best post yet on the subject...IMO.

Sure you stepped back from the edge but you're clearly right back on it. What's different in your post today than anything you said 10 days ago. This freshman class won't get Arizona back to the 2012 NCAA Tournament? Really?

As for Lute never having trouble with top players, what Lute teams were you watching. Rogers was a 5-star recruit. Salim was the best shooter in school history and spent more time in Lute's doghouse than anyone besides Rogers that I can remember. Wil Bynum was a Top 50 high school player that the magical Lute could never figure out, saw him transfer to Georgia Tech and then watched Tech reach the Final Four with Bynum as the team's 6th man. Shall I go on?

What about Williams, who single handily destroyed Arizona's 13-1 start to the season, which ended with Lute showing Williams the door as a sophomore. Arizona hasn't been the same since, including Olson's final season before the absences.

Olson was a hall of fame coach. No argument there. But let's not forget all the tough times the program went through under his reign because his near 3 decades with Arizona wasn't as perfect as we'd like to remember.

I agree that the honeymoon is over with Miller. After 3 seasons it should be, but it's wrong to write him off.

And for the 10,000 time, last year's recruiting class was not a Top Class in the country. This year's is. Monster difference and tired of explaining why.

I want you guys to back off Wineknow. That's right --

Now, Gary, you and Jim hold him from behind while I throw a few punches myself.

Ha ha. I will vigorously defend WK's opinion, or at least his right to it.

There are certain truths here, though. There is a body of thought out there that says Miller ran Mo Mo off, or that didn't emphasize enough to Mo Mo that he would have the right of first refusal on the PG spot. Grandma? Not sure that I buy that whole thing. Although it may have been a little bit of a factor, I can't think that it was all that was made of it. Mo Mo's experience gives us another five wins. The whole transfer thing wasn't well thought out because Iona wasn't the destination of choice. But even St. Johns isn't logical after Arizona.

With Mo Mo, Arizona wins 28 games, minimum, and we aren't even having this discussion. Better players make better coaches.

Others here have lambasted Miller because his team played at a slow pace. Take a look at the championship game this year. Fast paced, lots of action, movement, but not a high scoring game by any means. Arizona often times advanced the ball quickly, either by the dribble or by pass, but what difference does it make if you can't score? This was one of the worst shooting clubs we have ever seen. Alot of teams played 4 back against us, limiting fast break chances. Overall, the defense played by this can't shoot straight team was pretty decent.

Careful in talking about Chris Rogers, Gary. On another board, WK defended him as the second coming. In truth, he was a kid with some oddities that St. Lute should have never permitted or put up with. I think it's safe to say that CR was probably the most unpopular player on any LO team.

BTW, yes Wineknow's entitled to his opinion. The only question is am I then entitled to beat him over the head with a hammer?

Opinion sminon....he is welcome to his opine.....no atter how misguided and confused it is.
My thoughts go the other way. If you check the article of all the players that have left (per Hansens column). You will see that Lute had as many if not more people leave the program for varios reasons. Did the forget the GOLDEN CHILD or GolDen One? He was a complete flop.
Miller will be just fine. He has brought a bunch recruits that should and will ( with class) bring AZ back to its glory.
But, as I have said before.....IF... (which I doubt) Miller doesnt become more flexible and is a failure from his own doing or lackmof doing..lthen I will change my mind. But I don't see it happening

Jim,

Respectfully... are you aware we are in Miller's fourth season? Lute's players are gone (unfortunately as they and 1 other guy carried the load this year). We have 1 returning player who is Arizona good and ready to play. THREE DAMN years and he's got no one (other than Hill) we can count on. This is like an AVERAGE ASU team.

Further I think ANY AZ coach failing to be one of the 83.6 (or whatever it is now) teams that make the tournament every year should be fired, no matter what the circumstances. That should be contractual. The NIT next year is unthinkable and should be unacceptable in everyones mind.

Prior to posting other responses....

In America it is legal to burn a US flag. I also believe it should be legal to beat the crap out of anyone who does.

So indeed, beat me over the head.... and know that I respect you and acknowledge that you know far more about hoops than I.

Duke was forced upon us, who did we voluntarily decide to play on the upcoming schedule that meets your criteria? Kentucky? Michigan State? Syracuse? Ohio State? North Carolina? Kansas?

I am not suggesting we won't make the tourney... just that if we don't Miller should be fired.

I'll give some of you guys this, though. Take a look at Arizona's roster. We have three walk ons at the guard position and a fourth scholarship player (McConnell) not eligible until 2013-14.

Those three walk ons match our current scholarship guards and one (Gabe York) will be a true freshman. At first glance, that is a bit nuts. However, Mayes, Johnson, York (and I'm betting Parrom plays a lot of 2-guard this year) are all very talented and will have their chances to shine this season in major roles.

I'm not worried, but I certainly understand the trepidation.

Really? Losing the only absolutely critical game of the seasons to #251? Missing the tournament? Failing to recruit/develop a serviceable 7 footer like EVERY SINGLE TEAM WE PLAYED HAD MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF?

I disagree... the right way to got about rebuilding is not to completely miss sooooooooo badly on KNat, Parrom, Sidiki, Bejerano, Mo Mo, Turner, well over 1/2 of his recruits in three years have been busts or will be....it's a total joke.

What wineknow does not understand is that Miller is rebuilding from nothing Lute left the cupboards so empty that it made Indiana look stacked when Cremebecame coach. Considering he has done as well as he has considering he had no serviceable players when he came in other than Fogg and has built it from pretty much nothing. Also he thinks that everybody in sports is wrong and have no idea about talent and that top ten recruits mean nothing when in truth they more than likely work out ask North Carolina, Duke,Kansas, and Kentucky. Turner did not work as well as planned but I would rather be getting top classes then fishing in the lake of mediocrity. Wineknow is one of those people that thinks the world is against him and that the government is listening into our thoughts so he wears a tin foil hat in his mothers basement where he is off the grid. Also known as the most successful ASU graduate.

Three years is at least a year beyond the cupboard was bare argument. The cupboard is bare because Miller ran MoMo off, horribly mis evaluated Bejerano, Sidiki, Turner and Knat, was slightly off the mark with Johnson & Mayes. Chol is a project and I believe will be great but that scholarship should have gone to a JC guy or someone who was ready because we are so desperate.

I believe that in 10 years we will look back on what a great player Chol and Derrick williams were. Hill will be remembered with Ray Owes (not too shabby) and the rest of the first three Miller classes will be forgotten as will your contention that I think the world is against me and government is out to get me or whatever you said that had nothing whatsoever to do with what we were talking about. And given the fact that he is 1-3 with recruiting classes, I'm not gonna hold my breath on #4 showing up, being ready to play, staying or ever actually developing.